Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 03:18:54 -0400
From: Gerard Harrison
bucbean Write:
>Now the alchemy may involve ethanol, but I daresay that I have somehow
>found that perfect mixture of Octane rating and spark advance for
>maximum power.
>
>Who knows.. just an observation.
There are a couple of distillers that make some nice non-methanol pre-EPA
style race fuels. 5 bucks a gallon is about the going rate. Some of your
local "Automotive Speed/Performance Shops" keep a few drums in stock for
clients that race and will fill your gas cans. Place in my area is Lizzard
Racing in West Babylon NY. They stock VP (brand) Racing fuel...C-12 is
108 Octane and has about 4.5 grams of lead per gallon...no methanol in
the C-12. They also make C-15(?) (114 octane/6 grams of lead I believe).
I've run both in my P11s and the damn things run like its 1968 again. Your
plugs and tailpipes get that perfect light
brown/grey colour and the lead actually adds an element of topend lube
to the process. The C-15 runs a bit hard in my 7.5:1 Atlas and at 70mph
you're left with the feeling that you should be shifting to a non-existent
5th gear.
On the downside the stuff evaporates almost as fast as spilled lacquer thinner so storage needs to be in well sealed containers which most bike tanks aren't. But you are correct, the stuff'll make that uphill ping disappear at damn near any advance setting
14.2 Putting the, (TEL) Lead Back
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 10:09:29 EDT
From: John Magyar
In a message dated 98-06-30 09:48:48 EDT, you write:
Somebody wrote:
>Genuine tetraethyl lead is available from AMX Enterprises, 7963 Depew
St.
>Arvada, CO. 80003 (303)428-8760 It's sold for $25. per gallon in 2,
4
>and 6 gallon cases. This is NOT a substitute. I use it in my 69 AMX
two-seater.
>
Ben English Wrote:
>A source!
>After all the interest in this compound, I walked over to the library
>and looked up tetraethyllead in the Merck index. Apart from references
on how
>to make tetraethyllead, Merck states that it is "Extremely poisonous!"
in
>italics. It gives LD50 orally in rats as 12.3 mg/kg, and warns that
"Acute or
>chronic poisoning may occur if inhaled or absorbed through the skin".
>
>In other words, WATCH IT!
>
>English.
Amen.
And thanks Ben.
As I recall, given the above stats, and assuming a 100kg rat or similar living species, say human Norton enthusiast, the LD50 at 12.3mg/kg works out to 1.23 grams orally gives you a 50/50 chance of dying (LD50) from the dose. Being the optimist, I like to think of this as 50/50 chance of living.
So if you are dealing with concentrated TEL, take heed and consider the above and its implications to you (and others) around the shop.
Regards,
John Magyar
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 10:46:58 -0400
From: KEN DUBEY
For a very comprehensive description of the formulation of gasoline and the effects of differing chemicals on it see www.horizon.bc.ca/f1/gastech.htm. It's written in terms that the average person can understand, and will most likely answer any question you can think of regarding gasoline.
Ken
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 10:28:17 +0100
From: Chris Grimmett
Following the discussion on the mailing list about tetraethyl lead, I have republished on the N.O.C. web site a very informative article recently written for the BMF and comparing leaded with unleaded petrol.
It contains useful information which should help readers decide whether or not they can use lead free grades.
Get it at Unleaded Petrol.
--
Chris Grimmett
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1998 09:13:42 -0500
From: helix13
I run an 850 commando on unleaded without problems. The owner's manual recommends an octane rating of 94, which translates to a 89.4 rating under the newer (R+M)/2 method.
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 08:03:42 -0500
From: Colin Sharpe
Somebody called Jan from Holland wrote:
>>dear all,
>>
>>I recently bought a Commando 850 Interstate.
>>reading all the discussions in the past time I wonder what kind of
>>petrol I should use in the Netherlands.
>>Has anybody a suggestion, for instance based upon experiences
>>
>>jan
Well, Jan, I don't know what is available in Holland, but the general rule would be to use the best commonly available. If highish octane leaded is available, that would be perfect, since that is what was around when the bike was designed and built. If not, premium (93 octane or thereabouts) unleaded works well. I found that the regular (87 octane) unleaded or leaded gas tends to cause pinging when the engine gets hot from standing in traffic. Exotic fuels, like 100 plus octane racing gas, will make you poor, but won't improve running unless you have milled the head significantly or changed pistons to rise compression to a much higher ratio.
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 12:21:26 -0500
From: Colin Sharpe
Martin Edridge wrote:
> Surely the big issue here is not about octane, but about valve seat
> recession. Having higher octane than is needed gets you nowhere except
> poor. Super unleaded in UK is higher octane than Four Star anyway,
so we
> have adequate octane but we will shortly be losing the lead which
helps
> protect the seats and valves. There still seems to be some confusion
as
> to the problems caused by the lack of lead in fuel. I know this has
been
> said (written) a million times already by others better qualified
than
> me, but here goes. One is resistance to detonation (octane) the other
is
> protection from valve seat recession. They are two separate issues,
and
> the latter is the one to which there appears to be no solution at
> present.(Opposing viewpoints welcomed).
> Cheers, Martin
"Surely" the big issue is about both. The originator asked what petrol he should use, and I gave my opinion based on my and other riders experience here in the U.S., where leaded gas hasn't been generally available for years.
Running an engine on a gas with too low an octane rating will cause pinging when you pull away or accelerate. This doesn't do much for your engine, so that's why I recommended the premium unleaded. The additional cost of premium over regular is less than a quarter a gallon, and on a bike which does 40 miles to a gallon, that is only a cent every two miles. As I said, I have experienced pinging with 87 octane gas when the engine is hot. I use 93 octane, which doesn't give me that problem.
Lead, as I pointed out at some length last week, does indeed prevent wear of valve seats. If you run an old car engine or motorcycle engine with the seats cut directly into the cast iron head, you will experience problems with valve seat wear. The solution, which I may say, is available at the present time, is to have hard valve seats fitted. This is commonly carried out by machine shops who do jobs like reboring engines etc. Norton Commandos, with their alumin(i)um heads, have hard inserts fitted. Maybe not quite as hard as the modern ones used in new engines designed to run on unleaded gas, but definitely usable. The consensus is that you have to grind the valves a little more often, but not enough to be a problem in using the bike. When you wear out the original seats, you can replace them with even harder ones, again providing a solution. People get in excess of 20,000 miles between valve grinds using original Norton seats.
Have you had problems with unleaded petrol in the U.K., or were you trolling?