Date: 4 May 1994 08:39:25 -0500
From: Guy.Fortier@f1.n249.z1.fidonet.org (Guy
Fortier)
Recently my trusty Commando has developed an annoying little problem. on acceleration under load the right side cylinder missfires/backfires or on one occasion stopped running altogether for a fraction of a second, backing off of the throttle seems to correct the situation and then you can power thru it. (seems to happen in between 2500 & 3000 rpm in 4th gear mostly) I swapped the plug end of my wires to see if the problem would move to the opposite side, it did. So I deduced I might have either a bad coil or a bad plug wire. I then proceeded to swap plug wires from side to side, the problem remained on the right side, so I surmized it must be a bad coil. I put a different coil on the right side and the problem remains. I have tried new plugs,new wires & different coil. What's left?????
Oh by the way I forgot to mention I am running with a Boyer.
Signed perplexed
Date: Sun, 8 May 1994 18:00:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nancy J Caputo <ncaputo@uclink.berkeley.edu>
From: Guy Fortier
>Recently my trusty Commando has developed an
annoying little problem....
Well, Cindy Grant discovered, with Godfrey's help, that one of her wires at the Boyer pickup was causing her miss. Give 'em a tug.
Lou TM LUIGI
From: Mike Taglieri
Date: 4 May 1994 08:39:25 -0500
I'm not surprised that the problem with the bad spark on the Boyer-equipped Commando turned out to be a bad connection. Boyer electronic ignitions, although well-made internally, have Mickey Mounse connections that aren't much better the Lucas originals. Giving the wires a "tug" may have broken through the oxide layer and fixed the problem for awhile, but it isn't a permanent solution. Here's one that is:
1. Cut off all the spade connectors to the Boyer, which are crimped in place and can corrode. Then solder and tape all wire-to-wire connections with rosin-core electrical solder: do the ones to the black box and also solder both ends of the wire that connects the pickup unit in the engine to the wiring harness. At the same time, you can rub epoxy around the two coils on the pickup unit, thereby encap-sulating them against vibration like late-model alternators.
2. The terminals of Lucas coils are threaded,
but their nuts [at least on Nortons] are used to hold male spade lugs that
connect to female spade lugs on the wires, allowing many places for corrosion.
Instead, solder round connectors on the wires (i.e., the kind with a hole
on the end), which you can get from Radio Shack. These will go onto
the coil terminals directly,
with the nuts holding them on. Polish the
terminals with steel wool, tighten the nuts down, then coat everything
with silicone to keep them dry. I installed a Boyer on my Commando
in the late 80's this way, and it's worked flawlessly without attention
for more than 6 years, even with outdoor storage some winters.
Finally, for long term reliability on any British bike, I'd recommend discarding Lucas "bullet" connectors wherever possible. These are prone to corrosion, and the 4-in-1 connectors in headlamps and main wiring harnesses also tend to fall apart from metal fatigue, which cannot be detected from theoutside. On my bike, virtually every wire-to-wire joint has been soldered and taped, and components that are rarely disconnected, such as the alternator, zener diode, and ignition switch also have soldered leads.
From: John Kula
Date: Sun, 8 May 94 21:52:08 PDT
To: BRIT-I8 --INTERNET Brit-iron@indiana.
I wouldn't call Boyer particularly well made on the inside, either. When I pulled one apart and began to peel the epoxy out, the whole thing looked very primitive and amateurish to me. I think _I_ could have designed and burned a neater board than that! And the soldering looked like it was done with a soldering gun, rather than iron. I could have sworn I saw a cold solder joint or two, too!
John Kula jakula@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca Commando 930 (MacBeth)
From: Michael Schippling
Date: Mon, 9 May 94 10:32:36 PDT
Guy.Fortier said:
>Recently my trusty Commando has developed an
annoying little problem...
You need to check with cindyg on the euro-moto list.... Her boyer sensor plate had a loose connection which caused the same type of behavior as you describe.
Took her a couple months of swapping every part on the machine, and almost cost us commandos a valuable adherent, before it got fixed.
MS
From: Cindy Grant
Date: Mon, 09 May 1994 11:16:38 +0000
Michael Shipping Said:
>You need to check with cindy g on the euro-moto
list....
>Her boyer sensor plate had a loose connection
which caused the same type of behavior as you describe.
Actually, it wasn't a loose connection...my problems
were caused by a fractured wire. The connections were the first thing I
went through on the bike--I replaced and resoldered all suspicious looking
connectors. Unfortunately, this didn't solve my problems. After months
of torture, we traced the problem to one of the wires which is part of
the Boyer stator plate; the wire finally severed completely.
I just finished putting the bike back together last Thursday, but so far
she seems to be running
okay.
----------------
Cindy Grant
'63 Triumph TR6R '68 Mustang
'70 Norton Commando Fastback '70 MGB
----------------
From: Your Name Here
Date: Mon, 09 May 94 11:57:31 -0600
You need to check with cindyg on the euro-moto list.... Her boyer sensor plate had a loose connection which caused the same type of behavior as you describe.
Took her a couple months of swapping every part on the machine, and almost cost us commandos a valuable adherent, before it
MS
------------------------------------------------------------
Well a single ride on an outdated Ducati almost cost you a commando adherent. When Cindy was up painting her Triumph, I would often find her sitting on my Duc and making noises with her mouth. This didn't bother me nearly as much as the drool on the tank.
Andrew Wolf
From: Bruce Graham
Date: Mon, 9 May 94 17:31:20 CDT
Actually, it wasn't a loose connection...my problems were caused by a fractured wire. The connections were the first thing I went through on the bike--I replaced and resoldered all suspicious looking connectors. Unfortunately, this didn't solve my problems. After months of torture, we traced the problem to one of the wires which is part of the Boyer stator plate; the wire finally severed completely. I just finished putting the bike back together last Thursday, but so far she seems to be running okay.
And there was great rejoicing throughout the land...
From: Mike Taglieri
Date: Tue, 10 May 94 02:38:36 EDT
>Actually, it wasn't a loose connection...my problems were caused by a fractured wire.......
One of the Norton race teams had this problem several years ago: the wires tend to vibrate at speed, and crack inside the insulation right where they come off the stator plate, but you can't see it. They solved the problem by mounting the plate upside down (to produce a gentler bend in the wire), then gobbing some silicone on the wire as it comes off the plate as a sort of strain-reliever.
I've never seen the inside of a Boyer, and I hope I never do, because the only handy one I could pull apart is my own. I meant that they have a very good reputation, once they're "burned in." Only trouble I've ever had with mine [I think] was last summer on July 4th, when the spark conked out on a camping trip to Pennsylvania, after ten miles of uphill twisties ridden two up.
My friend and I reached a town, and started and stopped the engine several times in 15 minutes while looking in vain for an open restaurant, all in 91 degree heat. The bike was running great, but suddenly refused to start, and produced no spark whatever (i.e., I could hold the plug lead on my hand while kicking w/ no feeling). After about 10 minutes, the spark came back, and I started easily.
The problem did not recur over the 200+ miles of our return trip, and has never creturned. Any ideas? The only thing I can think of for this is that either a coil or my Boyer box got overheated and temporarily failed in the extreme heat radiating off the head after the hard riding, which presumably continued radiating while we puttered around looking for a restaurant.
I have no idea whether either of these theories is likely, or how you a test a component that only goes bad under extreme heat and loads. The coils are the Lucas originals, whose oil I topped off about 6 years ago when I put in the Boyer, but which otherwise have never needed service. The Boyer is in the usual position on the frame although my big Interstate tank might (?) limit the airstream around it. Any ideas?
From: Pete Serrino
Date: Tue, 10 May 1994 10:26:52 -0500 (EST)
The only thing I can think of for this is that either a coil or my Boyer box got overheated and temporarily failed in the extreme heat radiating off the head after the hard riding, which presumably continued radiating while we puttered around looking for a restaurant.
I haven't seen the article but a friend said that in the latest TIOC-BIMA newsletter is an article claiming that an over heated Boyer will fail. They said keep in the airstream and don't wrap it in foam when mounting. Someone mentioned recently that they unpotted a Boyer and found some cold solder joints. These obviously, will fail with heat and age.
I have had no black box problems in the six years I have been using a Boyer but a couple of weeks ago my Nort left me by the side of the road with no spark. When I got it home (truck) it started right up. ?????
I am aware of the pickup problems. I have removed the Boyer wires and soldered in some 4-40 x 3/8" brass standoffs to the circuit board. So far no broken wires in points area.
Pete
From: Peter Aslan
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 17:45:40 +0000 (GMT)
If you are suffering for Banging in the exausts, particularly on overrun, (throttle off, decellerating), theres a simple test you can perform to see if the problem is caused by air entering at the Head/Exaust junction.
Idle the Bike, (its difficult I know, maybe a frend). Place your hands over the exaust pipes, where the black stuff comes out. Does the engine fade a die ? If yes, see the Ignition Timing and Carburation section. If no, then try and locate where the exausted gasses are going and if it is where the pipes meet the head, bingo..
I know this is obvious, but I only thought of it at the weekend. Now how do you spell M E N S A.
Peter Aslan (aka Captain Norton). Louden Quill Award.